PEG-8 Dimethicone

CosChemFanCosChemFan Member
edited February 2015 in Formulating
Hello Everyone!

It's me again and I'm still working on my hair gel formula. I got a pretty good base down, but I recently added 2% PEG-8 Dimethicone and it coagulated in the formula! Would anyone happen to know why this happened? My formula is listed below for reference. I've used PEG-8 Dimethicone before in other formulas and never experienced this. Really confused on what caused this.

Water
Glycerin
PEG-8 Dimethicone
Shea Butter-WS
Hydrolyzed Protein
Quaternium-31
Vitamin Complex
Extract
Extract 
TEA
Germall Plus
fragrance
Disodium EDTA

Thank you for any help you are willing to provide!

Regards,
CosChemFan

Comments

  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    Do a knockout experimental series to determine the culprit - I suspect the dimethicone isn't compatible with the quaternium-31.

    What is creating the gel in your formula?
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • CosChemFanCosChemFan Member
    edited February 2015
    Hi @Bobzchemist

    Oh geez! I'm using ultrez-20 to create the gel. I put the quat-31 in last as to not cause a reaction with anything else. It's also a really small amount that I used. But I'll knockout it out in the next batch to see. Thank you so much for responding.


    Regards,
    CosChemFan
  • CosChemFanCosChemFan Member
    edited February 2015
    Hi Everyone!

    So I did a knock out test with a few side experiments to find the coagulating culprit. Turns out it was the vitamin complex (Niacinamide (and) Sodium Starch Octenyl Succinate (and) Calcium Pantothenate (and) Maltodextrin (and) Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate (and) Tocopheryl Acetate (and) Pyridoxine HCl (and) Silica) interacting with the Peg-8 Dimethicone. I'm not exactly sure why that is happening though. The Peg-8 Dimethicone kicks it out of the solution for some reason. Even when I just added the Peg-8 and the complex to water the complex would clump up as soon as Peg-8 was added. How strange. So I guess I'll lower the complex percentage or take it out all together, but it was kind of the featured ingredient. Maybe at a much much less percentage...? Or find a replacement for Peg-8...? I really like the slip and feel it provides though. This is going to be tough. 

    Any suggestions for PEG-8 Dimethicone replacements?


    Regards,
    CosChemFan 
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • @Belassi ;

    Thank you so much for your suggestions! I managed to figure out how to incorporate both the complex and the PEG-8 Dimethicone. All it took was a little high speed mixing and patience while I waited for the foam to go down. The final product came out pretty nice, but I'm going to try 3 different formulas to compare and experiment. 
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Great idea. I have several different silicone products in stock, some powder some liquid, and they all give different sensorials.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • @Belassi I want to play around with a carbomer percentage and type as well as the percentage level of the PEG-8. It's the only ingredient that I tried (after many failed attempts using others) that took away the crunchy/tacky feeling and added that conditioned feeling to the hair. I don't have many water soluble ingredients to work with that perform the same function.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Get in touch with your Lubrizol rep. for samples. Try 940 versus the Ultrez-20 . They both have quite different sensorials. 940 is harder to work with and not recommended for the E.U. market. You could also try Aqua SF-20 but I personally haven't taken to that.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
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