How can we make no irritant surfactant?

FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
 Actually i'am thinking about no irritant surfactant for shampoo so i tried to do it from soap but almost voices say that it will not works.
 So have any one think or try something about making no irritant surfactant?
 Actually i just start thinking about Esters ... all your ideas will be welcomed.
@Chemist77 @Gunther @Belassi @DAS @Microformulation @ngarayeva001

Comments

  • If you are trying to make a product that is truly mild (like a baby product), you would need to use amphoteric surfactants, such as Cocamidopropyl Betaine. If you are looking for just a mild shampoo you can use Cocamidopropyl Betaine as a primary surfactant, with Coco Glucoside and Decyl Glucoside (as a foam booster at a low %).
    I personally think that even sulfates are not that irritating when properly formulated, but it depends on the result you would like to get.


  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @ngarayeva001 thanks for that , actually i want to make by my self something like Decyl Glucoside...
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    You can either use a non-irritant blend of surfactants or you can use a more traditional blend and additives to remove the irritation. 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Belassi have an idea about additives that reduce irritation ? it is a good idea however i never read about such additives...
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Proteins are one such thing. I discovered that spirulina makes a terrific no-tears shampoo but it isn't stable enough.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Belassi great discover wish we find something stable and have reducing irritation effect. I'am thinking about diluated saccharose i will make some experiences and tell you .
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2018
    @Belassi the using of saccharose syrup or glucose is not Random cause they are already used espacially glycose to make no irritant surfactant as decyl glycoside.
    So about developping your idea of protein we can think about some proteines powder?
  • @Fekher, Decyl Glucoside can be mild in a properly formulated product, but it is not mild (or non irritant) by itself. It is often marketed as mild and if you google it and open a wikipedia page it would say "mild non-ionic surfactant used in baby products" but, it can be irritating at higher concentrations. I believe that @Microformulation can add more on this. 
    Another point, are you going to use Decyl Glucoside as a primary surfactant? It is usually used at low level to boost foam (I saw it as a primary surfactant in leave on make up remover). It tends to make the formula pretty thin.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Here is the issue. Soaps and surfactants are so different that you need to treat them as vastly separate and dissimilar products.

    I would avoid Decyl Glucoside as a primary surfactant. As many have pointed out, it is an irritant. Also, it has much negative marketing bias. There are numerous other better surfactants.

    Shampoos have a significant aqueous portion and a favorable pH for many water-based products which can ameliorate the irritation. (No, I am not listing a bunch for anyone, research, research, research, no freebies here, we all do this for money in real life). Also, the list is expansive and there are too many sub-details regarding each material. 
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • What he actually wants is to make his own surfactants. Simple answer, don't. It takes a big budget,  proper equipment, experienced chemists and a good method. And of course you would have to source raw materials of high quality, the slightest variation will affect the process.

    There are many reasons why it's a bad idea. Buy what's already available and properly made and tested.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    @DAS Yes, but he is intractable when it comes to taking good advice.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Here is the issue. Soaps and surfactants are so different that you need to treat them as vastly separate and dissimilar products.

    I would avoid Decyl Glucoside as a primary surfactant. As many have pointed out, it is an irritant. Also, it has much negative marketing bias. There are numerous other better surfactants.

    Shampoos have a significant aqueous portion and a favorable pH for many water-based products which can ameliorate the irritation. (No, I am not listing a bunch for anyone, research, research, research, no freebies here, we all do this for money in real life). Also, the list is expansive and there are too many sub-details regarding each material. 
    So active CAPBetaine % should be higher than glucoside to remain nonirritating?
    What percentages of the above would you use, ballpark?



    @Fekher
    there's a Evonik PDF file on Tego Betain F 50 that says that when CAPB concentration becomes 80-90% of the total surfactants, irritation is the lowest

    http://glenncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DS_TEGO_Betain_F_50_e.pdf

    Now, high CAPB feels a bit slimy, so you may wish to add something else, probably glucosides.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I was arguing that for growing market bias as well as the irritation potential, Decyl Glucoside would not be my choice at ALL, regardless of the other surfactants.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Gunther i will try CAPB with % between 80 & 90 of surfactants appriciate your help whatever the resultat.
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