Body Splash

akshayakshay Member
edited October 2014 in Formulating
Hi am trying to make a body splash but having some issues would be grateful to get some advice. The main issue is the final product,when using the splash, it give an oily feeling to the skin, any advise on how to reduce this oily feeling. Just want the final product to feel like an After-Shave without that oily feeling which can be annoying. Is there any possibility that the PEG-40 or the glycerin might be the problem. Thanks. Here is the formula:

Ingredients                                                        %

Water                                                            35.00
Ethyl Alcohol 94% Denat                                60.00
PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil                      5.00
Propylene Glycol                                              4.00
Fragrance                                                        3.00
Glycerine                                                         1.00
D-Panthenol                                                     1.00

Comments

  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    edited October 2014
    First of all if it is in % then it should add up to 100 which is not the case here, secondly where is the fragrance (whats the percentage) and with so much ethanol why you still need the solubilizer. Last but not the least try to reduce the glycols and panthenol to bare minimum if you want that non-sticky feeling without the drying effect of ethanol. It's just a splash, keep it simple. 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I concur.  1% panthenol isn't going to have any positive effect.  You can reduce it to 0.1%   Cut the castor oil down to under 1%.  
  • Thanks, yes I will reduce the glycols, panthenol and castor oil. and make it add up to 100. Am using 3% Fragrance in this formula.

    Cheers
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    While agreeing with @Perry I would do my first trial without the solubilizer to check if ethanol is enough to keep the product clear and transparent. I am guessing 3% fragrance won't be an issue for 60% ethanol. 
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    I don't think the propylene glycol is helping you any either.

    Try this - mix just the fragrance, water and alcohol together, and evaluate the feel and stability/compatibility - if the fragrance is soluble in the alcohol/water solution, there is no need for the PEG-40 HCO. (If the batch is cloudy, you need at least a little. Titrate the batch dropwise until it clears - 2 or 3 minutes of mixing might be needed between drops) Split the batch and add the 1% glycerin to 1/2 the batch. Evaluate the feel again. Combine portions of the two at various levels to determine the best level of glycerin. You might be able to stop there and have a finished formulation.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • @bobzchemist isnt better to mix the fragrance and ethanol titrate the batch to reach clear solution and then add the water?
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    @nasrins, my assumption is that the fragrance is soluble completely or almost completely in the alcohol, but not in the alcohol/water solution. Just enough solubilizer to get the fragrance into concentrated alcohol is probably not enough to get it soluble in the alcohol/water solution. 
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • nasrinsnasrins Member
    edited November 2014

    @bobzchemis yesterday I did what you said:

    I mixed 3.02g fragrance+ 51g ethanol(  clear solution) then I added 31g water(becomes completly cloudy) . I titrated the batch dropwise(with PEG40HCO) until it clears. The grams was 0.62g. The batch was completly clear yesterday but today its cloudy.I dont know why!!!! maybe it needs more HCO or maybe because of temperature( 21C).

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Temperature can have a large effect on solubility.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    @Belassi I suppose with sufficient ethanol and water balance the fragrance can have good solubilization in body splashes. As a matter of fact problem occurs when there is solubilizer and which tend to solidify at lower temperatures. PEG-40 HCO is a classic example, in summers its pretty liquid but in winter at times we have to warm it to melt it.
    But again it depends how strong the fragrance one has used and what are the components that make up that fragrance, many are easily soluble in water/ethanol solution while others need a solubilizer at the same water/ethanol ratio.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    I don't really have the knowledge to contribute further. I'm quite surprised actually that you were able to dissolve the fragrance in alcohol to any extent; all the fragrances I have are nonpolar and alcohol is polar. They don't mix. And I know nothing about PEG-40 HCO. If I were trying to do the same thing I would probably use polysorbate-20 to dissolve the fragrance and then add that to the alcohol. That's what perfumers do, I believe.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Whether two chemicals can dissolve together depends on the similarity of the chemical structure, and/or on the interaction between them (eg, whether the hydrogen bond can be formed between two chemicals).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrand_solubility_parameter
    If the difference in the solubility parameters of these two chemicals is less than 0.5 cal1/2 cm-3/2, then it is very likely to dissolve each other.

    I was able to pull the above article from net when you woke me up about the polarity difference :-) hope it can help a bit to understand the above phenomenon better. 
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    There is some trick that Swift mentioned about how to identify polar vs nonpolar fragrances. Something to do with adding it to cyclomethicone. One causes a reaction and the other doesn't. I'm not sure if cyclopentasiloxane, which is what I have, would work the same way. . . 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Well if you check the compatibility chart then you would see that ethanol and cyclomethicone are miscible, does that lead somewhere?????
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Not really. I never understood what she was talking about.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    edited November 2014
    Guess @IrinaTudor could explain this in a much better way for us. 
  • Hi,

    Thanks for the help, I have actually reduce the amount of propylene glycol to a low 1 % and remove the PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, the feeling is perfect, there is a considerable decrease in the oily feeling.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    This forum appreciates people who complete the cycle by giving the feedback.
  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    Did someone call? ;)

    @Akshay glad it worked out :)

    @nasrins, please feel free to open a new topic on the fragrance matter.
    1 quick piece of advice: never add water to an alcohol solution, that's asking for trouble (due to polarity> solubility issues, most fragrance raw materials are not soluble in water).
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    p.s. This is one of my favorite YouTube video's on polar vs non-polar chemistry from CrashCourse
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    @IrinaTudor Actually me nd @Belassi were having a discussion on polarities and solubilization, my take was that I am able to dissolve majority of fragrances in my absolute ethanol (denat.) and what we missed is that even the components of a fragrance have varying polarity and which gives rise to this phenomenon of varying solubility. And of course I am guessing there is H-bonding involved too between ethanol and fragrance components (which are just so many and so varied), am I being naive in my understanding here??????
    Your input would be of great help.

    Cheers
  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    @milliachemist, this would make such a lovely and interesting topic, so maybe start a new discussion and we'll discuss? ;)
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    @IrinaTudor Sure thing but since your are the leader here guess you start the thread or me?????
  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • uummm lots of comments...
    friends Im in vacation I will come after 3days
    :D I really love fragrance discussions
  • nasrinsnasrins Member
    edited November 2014
    @belassi Ethanol has both water loving(oH) and water avoiding(CH3) groups. so it can dissolve both polar and nonpolar substances.


  • @Irina tudor

    1 quick piece of advice: never add water to an alcohol solution, that's asking for trouble (due to polarity> solubility issues, most fragrance raw materials are not soluble in water).

    Hi Irina, here I have fragrance, water and alcohol. so whats the best way to dissolve fragrance ? how I can mix them to have least amount of HCO?

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