Problem with consistency of leave on conditioner

Hi All :)

I tried a leave on conditioner formulation and the issue is that it has turned thicker in consistency as against the intended gel like consistency. THe formula details are

Phase A                       %                          
D/w                          81.80
guar gum                    0.50
cetearyl alcohol           2.00
glycerine                     1.50

Phase B
Quat 7                         3.00
Quat 10                       2.00
Stearic acid                  2.00
BTMS 50                      5.00

Phase C
Dimethicone                2.00
Cetrimonium Chloride 1.50

Phase D
D panthenol in water   1.50
M paraben                   0.50
Fragrance                    0.30
Citric acid                    0.10
Keratin+ bitoin & water1.00

The intended pH was between 4.5 & 4.9. Mine was at 4.8. I was quite happy with the testing. The hair detangled beautifully and turned absolutely soft and frizz controlled. Also, the keratin+biotin capsules were meant for intake and I experimented with them. The result was quite pleasing. The hair fall had reasonably reduced with just 2 uses. 

However, the fishy odor was a spoiler. I referred some blogs and tried increasing the fragrance as discussed in some forums too. I had to nearly pour half of a 30 ml bottle. One week gone now, the conditioner has turned to a cream consistency and the perfume is overpowering. Also, the perfume used was brown in color and so I presume that the pinkish color of the conditioner is an impact of the fragrance. I am happy with the impact on the hair but am looking for expert views on how I could achieve transparent gel like consistency without the fishy odor. 

Comments

  • Should I knock off the thickeners? Will it give me the same result if reduced BTMS 50? The percentage of 5 was keeping in mind the advice received from one of you here that when silicones are used, we may have to use more BTMS 50. Please correct my understanding if wrong. Many thanks. :)
  • could the consistency issue be due to stearic acid and guar gum?

  • shuchi said:
    Should I knock off the thickeners? Will it give me the same result if reduced BTMS 50? The percentage of 5 was keeping in mind the advice received from one of you here that when silicones are used, we may have to use more BTMS 50. Please correct my understanding if wrong. Many thanks. :)
    About the BTMS 50 was for the fishy odor.

  • I'm not an expert but the guar gum also stood out to me as a possible cause for your consistency issues. No idea what could be causing the fishy odor.
  • IMO drop the guar gum and stearic acid and just thicken it with fatty alcohols.
    You can try replacing some or all of the cetearyl alcohol with cetyl alcohol for a less draggy product.

    It being a leave on product, PQ-7 and 10 are way too high and will leave a sticky film on hair.
    Try reducing them to just 0.1% or even removing them altogether.
  • @Agate@Gunther ;
    Thanks so much. Very helpful.  :)
  • the btms-50 is the thing causing the fishy odor 
  • shuchi said:
    shuchi said:
    Should I knock off the thickeners? Will it give me the same result if reduced BTMS 50? The percentage of 5 was keeping in mind the advice received from one of you here that when silicones are used, we may have to use more BTMS 50. Please correct my understanding if wrong. Many thanks. :)
    About the BTMS 50 was for the fishy odor.

    Yea, the btms50 can be fishy but shouldn't be overpowering or even noticeable in the end product. I would find a new supplier for your btms50.
  • EarthEEarthE Member
    edited March 1
    shuchi said:
    Hi All :)

    I tried a leave on conditioner formulation and the issue is that it has turned thicker in consistency as against the intended gel like consistency. THe formula details are

    Phase A                       %                          
    D/w                          81.80
    guar gum                    0.50
    cetearyl alcohol           2.00
    glycerine                     1.50

    Phase B
    Quat 7                         3.00
    Quat 10                       2.00
    Stearic acid                  2.00
    BTMS 50                      5.00

    Phase C
    Dimethicone                2.00
    Cetrimonium Chloride 1.50

    Phase D
    D panthenol in water   1.50
    M paraben                   0.50
    Fragrance                    0.30
    Citric acid                    0.10
    Keratin+ bitoin & water1.00

    The intended pH was between 4.5 & 4.9. Mine was at 4.8. I was quite happy with the testing. The hair detangled beautifully and turned absolutely soft and frizz controlled. Also, the keratin+biotin capsules were meant for intake and I experimented with them. The result was quite pleasing. The hair fall had reasonably reduced with just 2 uses. 

    However, the fishy odor was a spoiler. I referred some blogs and tried increasing the fragrance as discussed in some forums too. I had to nearly pour half of a 30 ml bottle. One week gone now, the conditioner has turned to a cream consistency and the perfume is overpowering. Also, the perfume used was brown in color and so I presume that the pinkish color of the conditioner is an impact of the fragrance. I am happy with the impact on the hair but am looking for expert views on how I could achieve transparent gel like consistency without the fishy odor. 
    Your CETAC is way higher than the recommended usage for leave-on product of 
    0.25%
  • abieroseabierose Member
    shuchi said:
    Hi All :)

    I tried a leave on conditioner formulation and the issue is that it has turned thicker in consistency as against the intended gel like consistency. THe formula details are

    Phase A                       %                          
    D/w                          81.80
    guar gum                    0.50
    cetearyl alcohol           2.00
    glycerine                     1.50

    Phase B
    Quat 7                         3.00
    Quat 10                       2.00
    Stearic acid                  2.00
    BTMS 50                      5.00

    Phase C
    Dimethicone                2.00
    Cetrimonium Chloride 1.50

    Phase D
    D panthenol in water   1.50
    M paraben                   0.50
    Fragrance                    0.30
    Citric acid                    0.10
    Keratin+ bitoin & water1.00

    The intended pH was between 4.5 & 4.9. Mine was at 4.8. I was quite happy with the testing. The hair detangled beautifully and turned absolutely soft and frizz controlled. Also, the keratin+biotin capsules were meant for intake and I experimented with them. The result was quite pleasing. The hair fall had reasonably reduced with just 2 uses. 

    However, the fishy odor was a spoiler. I referred some blogs and tried increasing the fragrance as discussed in some forums too. I had to nearly pour half of a 30 ml bottle. One week gone now, the conditioner has turned to a cream consistency and the perfume is overpowering. Also, the perfume used was brown in color and so I presume that the pinkish color of the conditioner is an impact of the fragrance. I am happy with the impact on the hair but am looking for expert views on how I could achieve transparent gel like consistency without the fishy odor. 
    Looks like you've got some things in the wrong phases...I believe cetearyl alcohol should be in with your Phase B ingredients and your Quats should be in your Phase A. 
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